The F Word with Dr. Dayal Meshri, Advance Research Chemicals

A chemist fed up with the bureaucracy of a large corporation takes the leap to start his own company. Thanks to some grit, great people skills and a bit of luck, Dr. Dayal Meshri has become a global leader of chemical manufacturing with his company Advanced Research Chemicals. His clients include brands like General Motors, Panasonic and Intel, who all depend on him for the components to power their products. Listen as Dr. Meshri talks about overcoming fears and a difficult childhood to build his wildly successful company- and using his success to give back.

[TRANSCRIPT]

Dr. Meshri: Leaving my country ten thousand miles away, coming here at the age of 26, it was a risk.

Lauren: This week on The F Word.

Dr. Meshri: I have seen lives on the both sides. I have seen very, very rich, very wealthy life. At the same I have seen the poverty not too many people have seen.

Lauren: Dr. Dayal Meshri, the president and founder of Advanced Research Chemicals.

Dr. Meshri: Really, you can work hard, sweat, do that. It doesn't hurt you. It makes you a stronger person.

Lauren: Today we are in for a treat. Dr. Dayal Meshri is the founder, president and CEO of Advanced Research Chemicals. Chances are you haven't heard of ARC before, but I guarantee you've heard of their clients. They produce chemicals for IBM, Panasonic, General Motors, DuPont, Samsung, Intel and more. ARC supplies more than 300 chemicals for industries including automotive, pharmaceuticals, military defense, industrial cleaners and textiles. For some of those chemicals, which I'm not even going to try to pronounce the names of, ARC is the only company in the world that makes and distributes them. Many would say Dr. Meshri is one of Tulsa's hidden gems, and he has experienced incredible success in starting his company at the Port of Catoosa back in 1987. But like all business owners, he hasn't made all the right choices to get to this point. There have been some failures along the way, and of course we'll talk about that today. Dr. Meshri, thank you for being here.

Dr. Meshri: Yeah, thank you very much for inviting me. It is a pleasure being with you, Lauren.

Lauren: So glad you're here. Your career in chemicals started a while back. Just to give people some background, you got your bachelors and masters degrees in India.

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: Then you got your PhD in Idaho and did some post-doctorate work at Cornell?

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: Then after that, you worked 18 years for a company doing chemical research.

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: So what made you decide after all that time to branch off and start your own business?

Dr. Meshri: Well you know, this country is a land of opportunity, and there were many factors involved in that, making decision to go on my own. I started a company back in 1969; my first job was as a manager. It was a private company so ... it was a small, about 500 people total. And you knew everybody and had good relationship, personal interactions and so forth. And also, you had lots of decision-making choices. Then, back in '73, we were purchased by a corporation in Pennsylvania. That was still not bad.

Lauren: So you were acquired?

Dr. Meshri: Acquired. Yes acquired. Good money you know, they paid fortune for $5 stock, they paid like 60 bucks. So nobody complained about it. So it was a good leader and everybody had a few bucks in their pocket, but then that company was bought by a French company. So, finally our research headquarters moved to France and become more and more complicated. Multibillion dollar or $40,000,000,000 company. And lot of red tape and other things because of bureaucracy I was getting a little tired, but more experience also. So I thought why not take a chance and start my own, see what happens. So I could. And on December 31st, I designed it in 1986 and January 1st I started my own.

Lauren: Were you scared to go off on your own at all? I mean, you had a pretty comfortable job where you were at?

Dr. Meshri: Well, it was a challenge, but I was very lucky. One of the lucky man. My wife had a very good job. I was thinking off and on anyway, and you always make plans in advance. So one time we decided that the Hubbard we live on one salary. Like my wife said, Eddie, can we manage it? My two kids were supposed to go to college also.

Lauren: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Meshri: Yes. My daughter was senior and son was in 10th grade, so they about to go. So we need the money for that too. But then we looked at our own budget and said, well, how much do we have? Maybe we can borrow against it and I can live on one income. So we did two years before.

Lauren: And did you do that? Borrow against your home?

Dr. Meshri: Yeah. Yeah. Then, you know, we put the experiment from ‘85 to ‘87 if we can live on one income. So we thought we could do that. Well, no tight conditions. And we had some saving money and we had all plans made out and then decided but didn't really want to start the company. Chemical company is one of the most difficult. Just before I started, it just happened to be bad luck or what. In ‘86 there was Bhopal. I don't know you, you were probably not born that time. Bhopal was a big chemical disaster. Union carbine was involved. It was happening in India, worldwide. Over several thousand people died in accident. There's a mistake. Water got into the system and this exploded and the poisonous gas was generated and killed several thousand people. Even now it has subsided, but still even after 30 years there is an impact of the Bhopal toxicity is there. And so the insurance for the chemical companies used to be for $1,000,000, you pay like a $5,000. It went jumped to $50,000 a year insurance.

Lauren: Wow. Because of this huge disaster.

Dr. Meshri: Because of Bhopal. Worldwide. It didn't impact only India, but worldwide. Litigation went for many, many years. Billions of dollars paid to the people who suffered. So chemical industry, you want to start to look that you want to make sure that there's no school around, not too many people living around and God forbid if something goes wrong, then what are the minimum impact on the society. Of course, what precaution you want to take and the operation of the chemical plant safety, but the same time, certainly if the releases there, what area, what people will be affected. So I definitely wondered that to start a place, which is industrial zone and not any house or resident or school or hospital nearby.

Lauren: So even with the financial risk, with the safety risk, you decided to go for it?

Dr. Meshri: Yeah. I go for it. Well, the reason my carrier been through all of the risk, leaving my country 10,000 miles away, coming here at the age of 26, it was a risk. Didn't know what's going to happen. Didn't know much about the culture. I didn't know that about the system. My food was, I was 100 percent vegetarian coming into beef and pork country.

Lauren: Vegetarianism was not that trendy then.

Dr. Meshri: They had never heard of it in those days. Yes.

Lauren: So failure was not new to you. Risks were not new to you. So starting this company, which is part of your nature, part of what shaped you.

Dr. Meshri: Yes. Yeah. I'm used to it actually. One of the product I was developing, I had over 400 explosions and I know that it's going to explode and I time and planned take a precaution boom with the system, but I go on, you know, so I'm not much of afraid of fear.

Lauren: Not at all, I can tell.

Dr. Meshri: No, no, no.

Lauren: I love also how your story started here in Tulsa. You really, you mentioned earlier, you bootstrapped it a lot to get your company off the ground. You took out an extra mortgage on your house, and you were looking for capital from friends, and you had your own money. I love the part of your story too, that there was a young man at a Tulsa bank who really took a chance on you and he gave you $100,000 loan, which was a big deal. What did you do to convince that young man gave you that money? Because I don't know, coming to Tulsa and they don't know you, they don't know what you're capable of. What did you do?

Dr. Meshri: His name is Jeff Kendall. He's now senior vice president at the Arvest bank. And that time he was loan manager at Stillwater bank. I told him that, look, I have this plan. I had made a business plan, showing these chemicals are exotic and its applications it could be so much beneficial and these could be the potential customer. And I was putting your money. You're going to put only $100,000 risk. I'm putting a couple of hundred mine. I'm leaving my executive job and so you know, you have trust in me and if you lose on the thousand word, what is a big deal for you guys? You are hundreds of million dollars. So just right off. So he was young. He's starting his career. He went to talk to his president. He said, you guys have no imagination. You got to see this guy. You have to give him money.

Lauren: So he really went to that for you?

Dr. Meshri: Yes. Yes.

Lauren: When you first came to Tulsa, I mean you came from the north, so when you came to this part of the country, did you experience people treating you any differently because you are an immigrant and because you don't look like everyone else?

Dr. Meshri: Oh yeah, I'm different. I came here in 1962 in this country are within a school or business or dealing with friends. I cannot say that I was discriminated because of my accent or my color or my behavior. Only one incidence I remember. I was at Cornell and I was a student visa called the F-One visa, and I was applying as a distinguished scientists, permanent residency. So my wife and I took application to the immigration office in Buffalo, New York. This gentleman looks around in that one, you are to show your income. As a postdoctoral fellow, I was making $800 a month. Keep in mind that seems to be about $10,000. $9,600 a year. $800 month. Yes. In those days, minimum wages were 30 cents an hour. People are making $200, $300, $400 a month. Even the professor at the university was making six, seven, $800 a month. So it was a very high salary compared to. So he looked at my paper and said, you're making too much money. Why don't you go home. The poor guy was probably. He wasn't making $300 or $3500 a month. That was his vision because he was as good as I said, look, I have been to school for 23 years. I don't think you have been to 23 months.

Lauren: He was met up with some sass.

Dr. Meshri: I said you need to talk to President Johnson. President Johnson was the president, and tell him not to allow the people making that kind of money. He put out application from my hand so now you can leave the office. I said, no, I'm not leaving your office. You write down that you got my application. So he gave me the receipt and I left his office, but that's the only incidents I can recall, but any other places because of my origin of India. Really I don't think so. People discriminated always. If I like you, you're my friend. I do you favor. She's not. She doesn't get a favor. That doesn't mean really. This is a human feeling. You know? If you know somebody and you want to do somebody favor, you're going to do it too bad against you. That happens. We're going to do all this same thing. From the floor to the top level. All the people do.

Lauren: So it really was about relationship building for you to build rapport as you built your business.

Dr. Meshri: Yeah.

Lauren: So you come Tulsa, you set up shop at the port of Catoosa. I'm guessing that's because of the safety stuff.

Dr. Meshri: I start with two people and myself. Oh sorry. I should have brought you some pictures. Next time you come to my office, I'll show you the old album.

Lauren: Okay. I'll take you up on that.

Dr. Meshri: Yes. It's very interesting to see. I had all my head wrap. For all the hair I lost. Getting the button on the top of the head myself.

Lauren: So you start with three people and now you have over 200 employees in three countries, in the US., Mexico and India.

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: Talk about your growth a little bit.

Dr. Meshri: The first, my major customer ... I was known because I contributed to the seven text books and also the three volumes of encyclopedias of Chemical Technology. So globally I'm known as a foreign scientist, so it doesn't make a difference people who haven't met me, whether it's in Russia or China or Japan or Europe; they have read my articles. So I'm not a stranger.

Lauren: You already made a name for yourself.

Dr. Meshri: People to know me and my work and so naturally somebody has a problem, they look and give me a call or send me an email. And GM had a big problem at the time. And the cars radiator water circulates in the car? This auto industry switch from copper to aluminum. Copper was becoming more expensive, like a dollar, dollar and a half a pound and aluminum was only 20 cents, 30 cents a pound. And weight is low. Density Aluminum is light. So car they making lower weight so they get more miles. But it was developing into pinholes specialty in the sea areas where the salt is in the area. So they were developing this one and they needed this material to give the rotor plating a coating. That was the only made in Japan. They could not get in USA. So one time the shipment didn't come. They had to send 747 to Osaka, Japan to bring the material.

Lauren: Just to get that one?

Dr. Meshri: Yeah. Yeah. Because General Motors told me any material coming into their plant late by one minute, it cost them $48,000. And so it was very expensive. Lorenzowas the purchasing agent and vice president. He told me that he used to buy chemicals for 30 billion dollar for GM and then Bedford was, is the assistant vice president. And so he kind of hired three people consultants. Those consultants knew me. And so they told him to go to Port of Catoosa. So General Motors was in shock. Port of Catoosa in Oklahoma. Which ocean is it. How could a port in Oklahoma. So they send me ... and those are fax and the fax that I couldn't afford it, even fax in those days, I just use the port of Catoosa fax, so usually get it in the morning and then lunchtime, in the evening you collected it because fax was costing you about $3,000 in those days. Now of course you buy for $30. So Kim and I see from General Motors and requested you make material, I said yes sure I can make it. And literally I said, send me your specification. They sent me. We went in the lab, I put a lab coat, we worked on it, we made it, finish it. At seven o’clock we analyze it. Eight o'clock I took that packet to the federal express and next day it was delivered in the morning and they had it.

Lauren: So within 24 hours you solved General Motors problem.

Dr. Meshri: That's right.

Lauren: That's phenomenal.

Dr. Meshri: So this guy's analyze and it was like a copy, Same thing.

Lauren: That they were flying in from Japan for thousands and thousands of dollars.

Dr. Meshri: Yes. They could not believe it. They've been looking for this about a year, the supplier here in this country and here, this is it. They call me say Dr. Meshri, Is this really your material? I said sure it's mine. Are you sure it's not Morita? They thought that I'm small guy and I must have bought some from Japan and packing into small quantity and sending it to the people selling it, you know, distribute more that I do. But then you're buying from the manufacturer. So I said no I made it myself. They said send us five kilo. So I made next five kilo, sent out. And then they say we need 20,000 pounds per month. I said I can't make it.

Lauren: You just didn't have enough manpower.

Dr. Meshri: 20,000 pound is a lot. Ten tons a month. So you don't know how much, how small I am and it needs so much equipment and handling and the people. So they said we want to come and see you. And so four people flew in, came, landed here in Tulsa. I went to pick them up. The one thing I learned in life, Lauren you should never do it again, Don't go pick up General Motors in foreign car. My wife had a Lincoln that I had driven to impress him, but him and Lincoln continental, they look and said what kind of car is that?

Lauren: So GM comes to town. They're impressed by you clearly. How do you go from you have the demand that you have to build up your company to meet that demand?

Dr. Meshri: So they say would you make this material? I said, you have to stay here a couple of days. They told me make about 20 kilo material. They stayed there. What do you do. I took them to museum, Robert University to two different places. Keep them two days entertained the mind. A couple of people were working and we're making it, after the material was made they took with them. In those days there was no 9/11, you can take any chemical you want to with you on the plane. So they took the sample, they analyze, they become very happy. Then they came back to me. They say, okay, we know you are small. You just about three people and 3,000 square feet and what would you need? I said, give me about a six to eight months. I'll go borrow money from the bank and I will build the plant and that will cost couple of million dollars at least. And I can borrow money from the bank because you General Motors rights here, purchase order number back in to do that. So this all right, we'll do that. And what about the price? That's the beauty here comes in and I said my raw material costs was less than a dollar a pound less than upon labor in those days. We used to pay about $10 an hour, $12 hour they were put in those days. So you do that. Your costs are probably FC made will be about $1.50 so you've got 20,000 pounds a month. So I get in my mind and I said okay, my costs $1.50, maybe I can double up and say see three dollars. But I was reluctant that they may not give me that much money. I don't want to lose it. But I dare less, if they give me three I make $20,000 month profit. That be good for me.

Lauren: Good for anyone.

Dr. Meshri: So I talked to them and they look at me they say no. That's not right price. I told you approximately but I had to make a sharp no, they said we want to give you $8 a pound. Now $8 a pound more than I wanted. So only $100,000 more coming a month. So I'm already millionaire.

Lauren: That's awesome. okay, SO I want to know, I feel like so many entrepreneurs are like you. They're experts in their field, and they want to get in front of their version of General Motors too. They're like, I have the solution to your problem, but they don't have General Motors knocking on their door. What would you say to those entrepreneurs who have ideas who feel like they could solve the problems of big corporations? How do you get in front of them? How do you knock on their door and say, I can solve your problem?

Dr. Meshri: Very good question. 90% of the time, it maybe sound a little bit arrogant statement, I don't knock on their door, they knock on my door. They come to me. Most of the companies have come to me, even Panasonic.

Lauren: Because you're an expert.

Dr. Meshri: Because my specialty. Because they have a trust in my technology that I will produce the material to their specification and I will be very reasonable with them.

Lauren: So maybe the key is establishing yourself as an expert in your field of publishing or speaking at events or whatever that might look like to establish yourself as the one who knows the answer. So I think most people hearing your story, at least the beginning of your story with General Motors, they would sound like he just had this great company and lots of money handed to you on a silver platter. But I'm sure as you were growing, as you are hiring people, as you were building your facility, as you were trying to solve each new problem that came. I'm sure you've made some mistakes in there. Can you talk some about that?

Dr. Meshri: Well, you know, you have several challenges. You want to see be reasonable, tell them give there time table. That's a challenge. You say I'm gonna give you June 2019, you better deliver June 19, don't make a July or August. Then you in bad books.

Lauren: Did that happen to you? Have you delivered late?

Dr. Meshri: Rarely it happens. We merely meet the deadlines very well. This is the order otherwise good record, if we had a tornado or something went bad or we lost the power, we have generators but so that could delay the shipment or the production, then we inform the customer but we meet almost 90, 95% of the time. So do that. So then again, you want to see you have enough space, not then you tell them, no, that I cannot do this year I'm going to do next year because I have to build the plant.

Lauren: So it's being honest with your customer?

Dr. Meshri: Absolutely. You had to be really laid down the card on the table with the customer. If you're not honest, sooner or later they're going to find out. Then you lost the credibility. You be very frank and very honest. So this is why customer like us, that we know that we could do it this time if not, we'll let you know.

Lauren: Is there a time that you really upset one of your customers?

Dr. Meshri: I had one customer, he owed me like a $30,000 and if I realize that he is in a shortage and if I pushed too far, what do you do? You go to the attorneys and you can waste them money fighting the court. So I gave him the terms so three years slowly slowly he paid it out on a couple of places they declared bankruptcy. I lost the money but that's okay.By now receivable, all 99 percent receivable are good. Yes. Yeah.

Lauren: What's been the hardest part about running your business?

Dr. Meshri: Most difficult as humans? Man power. Yeah. Because people have different temperament, different attitudes and to make them the teamwork. Joined. That's a big challenge. Most difficult because people, even they are paid equally treated equally like you two girls out here, you get Samsung, they said $5,000 a month, but you are very frugal. You look at the five shops and then you buy so you can buy a Jaguar. She and she has a Volkswagen and she said, Lauren has a Jaguar or she's bad. You've been treated well and she's not treated right, human factor. So you want to minimize that human factor. You bring the people together, coordinate and so that they work as a team, so general philosophy is that as long as you are in this component complex, you work together as a family, as a team member, helping each other. But there's always the human factor, jealousy, individuality and somebody got a promotion other didn't get a promotion. It always brings the waves in the ocean and if I tell somebody, my employee, it may not go well, it goes from one ear to other all feel defensive or feel guilty that I been caught. So instead you heard third person from outside and late who's the impartial he or she, they can probably work out to and give you good feedback on the issue. So that works out well.

Lauren: A moderator. That's always good. So I want to shift gears a little bit.

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: A great deal of your business serves the technology industry, which just keeps changing faster and faster and faster. How do you keep up with the changes in the growing demand for new products? Because I mean your chemicals, you were telling me work in batteries are working memory cards which are getting smaller and they're expecting more of them. So how do you adjust? How do you keep up with that?

Dr. Meshri: It's a big challenge is like you are a student. You had to read, you to study, you to think open minded and you had to change with the technology. If not, I tell the people Dennis died. Why? Because they didn't change with the environment. So if you don't change with the environment you're dead. So you have to be up to the current technology. What are the competitors are doing? What's being done? On the same line you try to experiment with God's good isn't good luck. Maybe you can end up with a better product. But yeah, it gives someone that always want to have. Because you know, you go do you go by some shop and you'll see this guy had dillard, has it messy, doesn't air. You're not gonna go there. So it's a challenge.

Lauren: You're executive vice president is your son Sonjay?

Dr. Meshri: Yes.

Lauren: Great man. So you are quoted everywhere saying how much you value working with your son. What do you really love about having a family run business and maybe what are some of the hard things in working with family.

Dr. Meshri: I'm very proud of my son and if you look at you're doing all this, everybody has a finite life. After some time I'll die. I won't be there. Then what happened to this thing? What do you establish? Who can carry on? And it's really good pride and self confidence that I have somebody who will carry behind it and we have good working relationship. The same thing you hope that one of the grandchildren will carry on. That tradition goes on. The beauty of being your own boss. Not only your own power, but you can make your people happy. You run the system happy and you can create things as you want to. If tomorrow I want to spend it five million dollar on some research project. Nobody can stop me. It's my money I'm my boss. So you are like a kid in a toy shop. You want to play. To be your own boss and also nice to have a family member who takes the interest, who follows your foot path and does a better job. Young generation. They know more. They're more intelligent, so it's a good relief. We have good working.

Lauren: Is it ever hard, like if you're all around the family dinner table to separate the business side of Dr. Meshri and Sanjay and the father/ son family side or does it all kind of just blend together?

Dr. Meshri: We do. We really ... Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. All the time. We don't meet to talk about the business. 99% of the time we try to do finish the business in the office and then private time usually Saturday get together, dinner or breakfast or lunch. You just talk about the how you talk about the grandkids. We talk about the plans. What vacation did you take or what you're doing? Just everything, not the business in it.

Lauren: You can just be Grandpa, not President. You have made giving back to the community a top priority as well. You give a lot to your family. You also give a lot to the community and you are really known for your generosity, giving scholarships, building parks, building schools, and I think the story behind that, probably not many people are aware of. I've read that what has motivated you to do that is that as a child you were actually a refugee. Your family had to leave everything behind in Pakistan when new borders were drawn for British India, and you lived very humbly as a child in a refugee camp. Talk about that experience and how it has shaped you.

Dr. Meshri: Yes, I have seen lives on the both sides. I have seen very, very rich, really healthy life family, lifestyle. At the same I have seen the poor division not too many people have seen it. When I was 11 years old, we were kicked out of the country. Same thing you see happening in Syria as a refugee. Middle of the night. We'd run away my family leaving everything behind.

Lauren: You just left it off and right away.

Dr. Meshri: The house take only the clothes bed and a few portable things in the suitcase, middle of the night, 12 o'clock have to bribe the train conductor and run away from the Pakistan border. Say India was divided between India and Pakistan. So we were Hindu. So most of them are cleaning up Hindu raping the women. What they will do that to a tie up all your mother, your sister and tie you. And then they try to de-huminate, cut the lips or breasts. All the torture going on. The brutality. Same thing. This Taliban and those people do. So to escape the family, we ran away and came in the refugee camp without any money, without anything and clothes on. So I remember 30 days we stayed in the camp. The only, the bread and water, the military will come and give you nothing else. So that and then the school hardship. I work very hard to do scholar go to school and I didn't know the language. I had to learn the new language and start all over again and say little things, afterschool balloons and all the things in the street collecting money for my living, in high school also. And then the school college, I got a little scholarship but it was not enough. So I used to sell soaps and detergents and going on the bicycle and it's hot. Temperature would be 119, 120.

Lauren: 120 degrees? Oh my gosh on the bike.

Dr. Meshri: On the bicycle 120, going door-to-door selling. Make money. Yeah. He showed his ascension. So one side you have to study and then decide you to earn yourself.

Lauren: And this is while you were earning your bachelor's?

Dr. Meshri: So I know the value of the education and self earning. Really you can work hard, sweat, do that. It doesn't hurt you. It makes you a stronger person.

Lauren: What motivated you through that? To go from having nothing to I'm going to get a degree and I'm going to get my masters and I'm going to study chemistry. That seems like a huge jump to me.

Dr. Meshri: My teachers, my family and my teacher. Teachers have played very important role in my life from high school onwards. They were affectionate, they were very guiding and also the continuously they used to remind that if you get educated, you get education, nobody can take away from you, and you can reach any place you want to. But if not school, then you'll be working on as a laborer, you're going to work in the restaurant, you will be collecting the trash. That's your life choice you have. And so the teachers inspire at this thing. So college also same way. I was very fortunate our teachers who have been world renowned teachers, like I'd worked for Dr. Glen Seaborg, who won two Nobel prize. So he was a student came to me and he was my professor. So he inspired me to come to USA. Similarly I worked at Cornell, Bill Miller who was one of the project or Malaysian project, Atomic Bomb Project, A-bomb. So these people are all experiencing very fatherly type guiding, they cared for you. And even my children were born. We used to visit them after I left Cornell. My kids ... till they died, one died at the age of 95, other died in 93, but they called them grandma and grandpa. We been taught in my culture, it says if God and teacher both came at the same time in front of you, who are you going to salute first or bow? It's a teacher. Through teacher you see God. Teacher has been taught as a very, very important part of your life, so this very important for us to be having an impact. Teachers were really dedicated. Same situation like Oklahoma not paid enough, but these people were. They treated us like your own children.

Lauren: So you've taken it upon yourself to get so much away to help others in a way you were helped.

Dr. Meshri: I believe also in education and especially for the woman, like my wife. She was pro-active.

Lauren: She was fantastic. She's amazing.

Dr. Meshri: Always you respect. You know, we say that man lives on a woman. As a mother, as a sister that goes together as a wife, as a daughter. And is that the person from your butter on what it takes care of you? How could you neglect her? How could you put that person down and not to care for that person? What will society be? If the woman is not respected? It's not be good for the society. So to bring a woman up to the standard. We have to have scholarship, especially for the woman...

Lauren: And you promote that especially in India, right?

Dr. Meshri: Yes I do in my wife's name. Yes yeah. I build the schools, colleges, universities, and I give the scholarship of preferably for woman, yes.

Lauren: That's wonderful. I want to end with the question we end every episode with which is, how would you encourage an entrepreneur who maybe they're in the same stage you were in the beginning of their bootstrapping it or they think they have a great idea. They want to grow a company. How would you encourage them to fight through failures they might be experiencing?

Dr. Meshri: Yes. Somebody is there who had a rough time down. Things didn't go well. My advice to that person will be, think over it. Why did it go to wrong? What was the cause? Not necessarily you blame yourself that this thing... I didn't, but I didn't know. But find the right cause and then think about it, either the alternate to that project or get somebody wiser than you be open with him. Did you go to the doctor? All you describe all your pains. You don't say, you know if your head hurts you don't say my foot hurts. You'll be truthful, honest, and tell them everything and or it could be that it's not your cup of tea, you not accustomed, or you not willing to spend as many hours is really in the beginning. You will hardly make a 10 cents an hour if you're lucky.

Lauren: Not everyone's cut out for that.

Dr. Meshri: You know you don't have... your first income you pay to the people, you pay to the vendors, you don't take the money home until you start making more money. So are you prepared for a sacrifice. You don't have to take a vacation. You don't ever buy the car. Get the old one fixed.

Lauren: So it's a lot of self assessment.

Dr. Meshri: So you sit down and do analysis and get good advice.

Lauren: That's wonderful advice. Thank you so much Dr. Meshri for coming in today. We love your story and we're so thankful that you're here.

Dr. Meshri: It's all good. Thank you for inviting me.

Lauren: Next week on the F word.

Adam: We checked the market. We saw demand, we checked with customer base, they showed demand, we launched the product and it just didn't move the needle like we thought it would.

Lauren: Adam Teague, the founder of Plank and Mill and Two Guys Bow Tie.

Announcer: The F word is brought to you by 36 degrees north. Tulsa's base camp for entrepreneurs. To learn more about our workspace community and resources, visit 36in.com. The F word season two is recorded in the KOSU studio and produced by Lauren King.